Friday, October 22, 2010

What Flavor of Baals Do You Like?

So my Lamenter army lists usually have a hefty set of Baals to get the job done. I have almost always gone with my trusty Flamestorm version, but when playing against meched up lists they are almost useless. The Assault Cannon option, though the same strength, greatly benefits from multiple shots and rending against vehicles.
I definitely did not want to take out both Flamestorms so went with the compromise of 1 and 1. I'm not sure this is the way to go. By splitting the difference am I making my army less effective then going full on one way or another? I'm not sure yet, but since I got that beasty above done, I'll be getting some tests in shortly.


gundog8324 said...

Personnallly even though the Flamestorm is more consistent with lower ap and template I prefer the Assaultcannon/HB combo.

3X range ability to deal with transports (especially the new DE ones) and 10 shots equals one flamer template in terms of damaage out put, but it gets more turns in of shooting.

AbusePuppy said...

Baals are good in the right army- that is, a highly-mobile Razorback-based list that uses Assault Cannons to their full advantage and is usually moving 12" and spewing out shots. In this army Baals and vanilla Preds provide a wall of AV13 to slow enemy shooting and are well worth it- a Flamestorm would just rush in and get killed while the rest of your army sits back.

Flamestorms are a nice gimmick and, honestly, the best platform for such a gun, but with the rise of mech, they generally aren't terribly frightening to most opponents. If you're running good assault troops (i.e. ASM in enough numbers with Priests nearby, SG, VV, or other such specialized troops) you shouldn't struggle to eliminate other MEQs once they're dismounted.

On the other hand, if you face a lot of non-mech armies and, for some bizarre reason, struggle against them, Flamestorms are basically the best thing ever, since they will almost always score some kills.

In either case, Heavy Bolters are the superior sponson choice, if you decide to run sponsons at all. (It's not by any means mandatory.) As gundog notes, they add a lot of anti-infantry fire at range and can annoy transports. They also give a measure of stand-off capability that the Flamestorm is otherwise completely lacking in.

HuronBH said...

I think both have merits, but if you are going to go with 2 of them they should always be of the same type. Pick a role you want the thanks to have and roll ( ;) ) with it.

Sgt. Brisbane said...

Assault Cannon with Heavy Bolter sponsons in my mainly Jump army to act as a deadly shield for my troops. Love them!

Duke said...

I almost always use mine with assault cannons and heavy blotters. Mixed with scout it is great!

The flamestors problem is that to be useful It usually needs to expose that squishy side armor.


Marshal Wilhelm said...

First up, I just want to say what a treat it is to see a beautiful yellow Marine army on the TT.

Fists, Lamenters and Emperor's Scythes are favourites of mine :D


A bit of speculation, but hopefully I am not too far off.

Flamestorms are a brilliant terrorising tool, and stop people doing silly things like leaving MEq out of transports and putting Infiltrators anywhere near the Baals.

Though TEq will laugh off a flamestorm template [well, sort of] TWC have sv3+ and getting them under the template will get some wounds on them. Making them vulnerable later on.
Tank-shock the not TH armed one. AV13 versus s5 rending is a good bet. If he fails he has lost a 50-100 pt model ^^,
Ld 8 is 26/36 or 72% chance. Send those Wolves packing! If you've moved any real distance he'll have a hard time hitting, so protecting your Preds, somewhat.

With HB sponsons, you can run them as faux-Dakka Preds. Fire them last, and hopefully the rest of your shooting has spilled out passengers from transports.
It also keeps the thing killing after a weapon-destroyed result and stops it being immobilised or destroyed with multiple results on the damage table. 30 pts seems like a good investment and the HB will remain effective from turns 3+ as enemy infantry get winkled out.

Fast should help to get HB shots onto side AV, helping against enemy Preds and Chimeras, etc.

I think HB will be solid against the incoming DE, against AV and the rest.
But what is that field that reduces your range?!